Friday, September 03, 2010
..:: Community » Hunting Forums » Hunting Forums » Deer Hunting Forum » Shot Placement, and other stuff ::..
Click On The Register Link Above To Join The Web's Best Hunting Portal

Shot Placement, and other stuff
Last Post 23 Jan 2010 05:56 AM by ujoutdoors. 5 Replies.
AddThis - Bookmarking and Sharing Button Printer Friendly
Sort:
PrevPrev NextNext
You are not authorized to post a reply.
Author Messages
ujoutdoorsUser is Offline
Trophy Hunter
Trophy Hunter
Send Private Message
Posts:329
ujoutdoors

--
27 May 2009 06:01 AM  

The main rule is once you go into the three figure club on big game you should know something about shot placement. When you have dressed out 500 or so you will know something about bullet performance.

TV shot placement is for movie stars showing the generic way to shoot a deer for the beginner. Arrow shot placement is different from bullet placement with the ideal shot being in the lower quadrant behind the foreleg. Which looks to me like a heart shot.

The center lung shot which is tight behind the shoulder is both a good bow and rifle shot but for different reasons. First it is the easiest shot as the biggest target. For the bow hunter it gets both lungs and the deer should drop between 50 and 200 yards. For the rifle hunter (depending on the rifle) this is a fair shot or a good shot depending on the equipment.

Determining the deer's reaction: If you are hunting in an area where tracking is easy; snow, or park like forests you can afford to let a deer run a bit after the shot. Then you can lung shoot a deer and let it run. Unfortunately I don't have that luxury in my part of the country.

I have to be very selective in choosing a bow hunting spot and be very selective of the guns I use for deer hunting. If a deer runs more than 50 yards in a Louisiana briar patch you may not be able to get to it. So you have to use a DRT Weapon (Dead right there).

With the bow, just don't go there, and that goes for 223 and 243s too. In heavy triple canopy forest (jungle) you must think of both bullet and arrow deflection, learning to spot a clean path all the way to the deer and set up the shot. This is difficult with high trajectory weapons like vertical and horizontal bows. This is the worst case scenario so once you get this right, more open terrain wont be as difficult.

So how do you drop a deer "right there?" Well if you are a Texas market hunter with a 22 hornet, at about 40 yards or less you can shoot them at the base of the ear all day. Neck shots are very difficult with a rifle as they move too much, but a neck shot with buckshot is the same as a head shot on a turkey. I use this shot on Nannies when shooting for the freezer. Three buckshot hits inside 40 yards with 00 or 000 buckshot in the heart lung area is a DRT Shot.

With 308 and 30-06 class rifles, minus the 243, a center shoulder shot will an-core your deer right there. Just don't use a bullet designed for larger than deer as they may shoot through the deer and you have a bow and arrow situation. A 30 cal 165 grain soft point is about right.

How to mess up a deer..Magnums...You should avoid the 7 mm and 300 magnums with 140 and 150 grain bullets if you like venison. However the 325 WSM and 338 Win Mag are not that bad on deer with heavy weight , but light jacket bullets, and keep the speed below 3000 fps.

If you do use high speed calibers like the 25-06, 270, 257 WBY mag, 7mm and 300 mag go for a behind the shoulder shot if you can.

The high lung shot, is one to do if you know exactly what you are doing with a good rest. This is for the guy on the TV show that gets to shoot tame food plot deer with perfect broad side shots (I never get that lucky). Trouble is most of these guys cant shoot that good, but if you can....go in the upper quadrant, tight behind the shoulder. The idea is to put your bullet just underneath the spine but not touch the  bone so not to ruin the back strap. The power of the bullet will shock the spine and deflate the lungs at the same time..DRT.

Now if you are a Big Bore Nut,  like I am then you learn a new degree of death, known as "Elmer Keith Dead" Using 50 cal muzzle loaders and 150 grain powder charges,444, 45-70 with at least 240 grain bullets on up but with light jackets or pure lead like a Brenekke 12 ga slug and you get this effect inside one hundred yards. Shoot them right in the middle of the shoulder and watch the rear collapse, and then the front. Sometime they skid on the ground a little after they fall. Then you find out you can eat right up to the bullet hole. Pass it on...

Uncle John

Foremost Hunting Pro Staff
jballardUser is Offline
Shooter
Shooter
Send Private Message
Posts:99
jballard

--
19 Jun 2009 04:36 AM  
Wow uncle John, I never really thought about all the "Kill Zones" and how they vary based on your weapon.
Chris LarsenUser is Offline
Trophy Hunter
Trophy Hunter
Send Private Message
Posts:166
Chris Larsen

--
22 Jan 2010 04:10 AM  
This is great stuff so I'm bumping it. I love the levels of dead DRT and EKD.

-CL
Foremost Hunting Pro Staff
ujoutdoorsUser is Offline
Trophy Hunter
Trophy Hunter
Send Private Message
Posts:329
ujoutdoors

--
22 Jan 2010 07:42 AM  

DRT and EKD may sound a little funny, and it is supposed to be, but the more big game animals you shoot the more you will agree with me. Every once in a while you will get an exception to the rule but not often. This year a really big doe took a perfect hit from the 325 WSM and actulaly made it about 10 steps. My DRT shot for the year was on a hog at about 25 yards, with a 22 magnum just over the right eye. My EKD shot for the year was straight down at 12 feet on a doe, with a 45-70. Some have seen the cartoon of Bambi vs Godzilla, a prime example of just plain smashing a deer. Otherwise neither deer was messed up any worse as far as meat destruction.

With proper equipment you are beating the law of averages. So I, for the medium range hunter, recommend a heavy bullet with a thin jacket will efectively put down a deer better or as good as a light fast bullet, with less meat destruction. Now if you really want to mess up a deer like some of the local experts I see posting horrible wounds on the Louisiana Sportsman websight in the "looky want I did," section, use a 7mm magnum with light fast bullets around 140 grains. You will only want to see this balistic feat of mayhem about once. 7mm mag works great at long range once the bullet slows down a bit, but at the 50 yard mark on whitetales, you wont need a meat grinder.

Slower bullet have a little magical thing call "Dwell Time" around 2400 fps. Making cartriges like the 416 Rigby an ulitimate Safari rifle. On deer at close to medium range 35 Remington, 338-06, 325 WSM, 338 Win Mag, 35 Whealan, and 350 Remington magnum and all of the big hand gun cartriges starting with the 44 magnum have this property. Breneke slugs have this property and even the lowly 22 short hollow point on small game.

What happen is the bullet stays in the animal longer and can even drag the beast along with it.

On the other hand we have the Jack OcConner/Roy Weatherby theroy of light fast bullets, and that works too. I have shot several deer with a 270 and a 30-06 with 130,140,150, 165, 168 and 180 grain bullets...my 308 Winchester seems to be better with 180 grain old time Silver tip bullets in the DRT department. If I wanted a Western Deer and Antelope rig it would be a 257 Weatherby magnum.

The two best moderen type deer rifles that I have owned that just plain put deer down is the 350 Remington Magnum with 200 grain Corloct bullets and the 325 WSM with 225 grain Power point bullets. My two choices for the cowboy/big bore rifles would be the 444 Marlin and the 45-70 govt. Both shooting Hornady flextip bullets they are they ultimate medium range deer rifles if you dont mind the kick. They both kick worse than the 325 WSM.

Now all this is for the human being that can handle this kind of rifle, for those who want something smaller a 7mm-08 Remington or 284 Winchester with 150 grain light constructed bullets will in fact serve as a DRT rifle. The most amazing small rifle, to me is the 7X30 Waters but it was never too popular. Now I'd like to see Marlin come out with the 270 Marlin Express that would be a fine light deer rifle in a lever action 336 design. Chuck Hawks wrote up the impressive balistics on this mythical cartrige, something Id like to see in the future.

Uncle John

Foremost Hunting Pro Staff
Chris LarsenUser is Offline
Trophy Hunter
Trophy Hunter
Send Private Message
Posts:166
Chris Larsen

--
22 Jan 2010 03:52 PM  
I'm pretty early in my big game "career" but I fully agree with your DRT theory. I like good clean shots that require no tracking. I shot two deer this fall with my Remington Model 742 30-06. The first deer's last step came just before my 150 grain bullet sliced through his heart. The second deer I shot traveled less than ten yards before crumpling up at the edge of a field. Again this shot passed through both lungs. Sure there is a lot of speed in the 150 grain bullet, but as you mentioned before proper placement will ensure the meat stays intact and only the vitals are shredded up. Why waste valuable time in the outdoors wondering just where the heck that deer went?

-CL
Foremost Hunting Pro Staff
ujoutdoorsUser is Offline
Trophy Hunter
Trophy Hunter
Send Private Message
Posts:329
ujoutdoors

--
23 Jan 2010 05:56 AM  
I've killed several deer with the 30 cal 150 grain bullet, but now use a 165 grain soft point by Winchester. I found that the balistic silvertip will on occassion give you the plastic pass through, the oringinal nosler balistic tip will not do this. i guess you just have to shoot a lot of deer to find this out. I like the Remingtion corloct, but in a factory load it leaves a bit to be desired in the guns I've tried it in so the winchester soft point and power point get the nod in the 30-06 and 308.

Uncle John
Foremost Hunting Pro Staff
You are not authorized to post a reply.

Active Forums 4.2

Your Free Registration With Foremost Hunting Only Takes A Minute!

Deer   Foremost Outdoor TV   Pheasant   Turkey   Duck   Resources
©Copyright 2010 by ForemostHunting.com - The Buck Drops Here!   Terms Of Use  Privacy Statement